Salina won't be devastated
10/18/2009
If we lose our Hawker Beechcraft plant, we will bounce back
For months we've been hearing rumors that Salina would lose its Hawker Beechcraft airplane manufacturing plant.
On Thursday, those rumors took on credibility with the story that Hawker Beechcraft was looking to consolidate its operations, and that it was "very likely" that it would close its Salina plant. The plant employs 241, down from 500 a year ago.
In a story first reported on the Wichita Eagle Web site, Hawker CEO Bill Boisture said that if the Salina plant is closed, those jobs would be heading to Hawker's Wichita plants.
The decision isn't final. Salina Airport Authority Executive Director Tim Rogers told the Journal that the possibility of the plant closing is one of the highest priorities for local civic and government leaders -- as it should be.
Those aren't just any jobs Hawker Beechcraft provides. Those are great-paying manufacturing jobs, the kind that almost any community would covet and would find nearly impossible to replace. To lose them would be a blow worth millions of dollars a year to Salina and the area in salaries alone.
But it was something that Virginia Hewitt, Hawker Beechcraft employee and union representative, said that caught our attention.
"It's going to devastate Salina," Hewitt told Journal reporter Tim Unruh. The loss of the plant will be painful, but devastating? No.
"Devastating" was the closing of Schilling Air Force Base in 1965, a loss that rapidly sucked thousands of people and jobs out of Salina and took years to recover from.
But from the ruins of that loss Salina rebounded to build a solid and diverse manufacturing base that will help mitigate the loss if the Hawker Beechcraft plant closes.
Our hope, of course, is that the Salina plant remains open, for Salina's sake, but especially for those Hawker Beechcraft employees who work there.
If it does close, Salina will be hurt, but it won't be devastated. And that's a direct result of the community leaders and hard-working employees who helped rebuild Salina after the loss of Schilling. Their fortitude and vision are the same qualities that will get us through the next painful challenge.
-- Ben Wearing
Executive Editor
822-1421
bwearing@salina.com
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informed individual says....
Yes it is 500 jobs total. Second -- the city of Salina population is not 50000 it is a hair above 48000 which is where it has been for about 10 years. Third yes we all help pay for college educations to individuals who receive pell grants and govn. subsidezed student loans. Yes it will do more damage than many think once you add in the numerous other loses such as firings and layoffs at Great Plains, hiring freezes at many manufacturing plants, intense competition for even low paying jobs -- which ironically is most of the jobs available. To put some figures to those who make fun of strikes for $20/hr wages. For man/woman/ 1 child Groceries $100 Electric $ 50 Gas $ 75 Water $ 40 Rent $400 Transportation $40 (rides city bus) Total-- $705 Wages 35hrs @ $8 = 280 *2 for 2 weeks = 560 * .8 (taxes and fica) = 464 *2 (two pay periods a month) = $928 - 705 = $213. NOTES: 1)My numbers are very conservative. 2)No phone or cable included (cable is luxury) phone is really nessecity. 3) Does not include clothing 4) Does not include medical 5) Does not include education for child. 6) Gas/water/Elec --average throughout a year 7) Rent is for 2 bedroom. This is also below the poverty line or really close to it. So change rent to house payment, upkeep on house, add vehical, medical insurance -- these things are what most people want and you come close to needing a $20 per hour job for a single income family.
10/21/2009
Reality Check says....
AGAIN IT WILL BE 500, NOT 241, get it right people! Midwest dude, I am sure Salina can absorb the losses...but with what fast food? HBC is skilled labor work that paid well. I do not want a job where I have to compete with a high school kid to keep a job or get a raise. Salina needs more high paying technical, commercial and industrial jobs...not restaurants that noone will be able to afford to eat at. Also, the strike had nothing to do with this and I am anti union and crossed the picket lines. I also wanted to believe the strike was the reason so there were people to blame directly. There is no blame but the economy and its downturn. Bottom line is that more than likely HBC is gone from here and there really is nothing we can do about changing that. However, this city and its so called leaders need to find a way to bring in HIGHER PAYING, skilled labor jobs instead of all of Salina being a restaurant worker. No offense is aimed there but seriously, Salina is like 90% restaurants!
10/21/2009
RKC says....
Blessed, Some real compassion? Good idea. What exactly wil YOU do to help the former Hawker Workers? Give some of them a job? Pay their mortgage? Send their kids to college? Now that would be Real Compassion!
10/20/2009
sj says....
it is very hard to feel sorry for you union people. you have to strike because you do not think that the 20+ dollars and hour you make is enough. no wonder they want to outsource to mexico.
10/20/2009
Hawker Beech Employee says....
RKC.... you're about as uncaring and ridiculous as Ben Wearing. You want to think this won't affect Salina and the taxpayers of this county then your blind and ignorant to the fact of how things work in times such as these!! I also never said anyone owes me or the other employees anything...But it will affect them and the economy, unemployment will go up and government aid will increase... who do you think pays for this?? Again with thinking that it is so easy to just go out and find a job that even comes close to providing adequate support is ludicrous!! You're just as selfish and undereducated as he is! Congrat's on making yourself look and sound like a fool!! To the person who corrected me, I am truly sorry i forgot to mention the hundreds of other people that lost their jobs and stability. This is a devastating thing to the employees, Hawker AND Salina!! It's just unfortunate to live next to such uncaring and heartless people in a time off loss to income and a huge blow to our pride!! Your job will one day come to the cutting room floor and you'll see the impact of Great American employment when it is taxed to Mexico for $4 an hour!!!!
10/20/2009
says....
I worked for many years at Hawker Beech and was told for years that the Salina Plant would close, there is no reason for it to be open we would move parts back and forth from Wichita to Salina and this was not a wise business move. back in the day Mrs. Beech moved some of the operation to Salina to show Wichita that she did not want to pay taxes. Lets get Hawker Beech out of salina and move in more stable jobs. The closing will not hurt Salina but will help it by bring in more stable jobs.
10/20/2009
Practical Economics says....
When the union workers went out on strike against the company, they signed their own termination papers. Employers want workers, not strikers. So enjoy your peanut butter and crackers, strikers, you did it to yourselves by trying to be too greedy.
10/19/2009
Midwest Dude says....
I agree wholeheartedly with the editor, the loss of jobs will NOT be devestating to Salina! Anybody working in the aircraft industry knows how volatile it is....a high paying job one day, then unemployment the next day. I knew this was coming for years and was why I bailed out of Beech when things were still going good. If Salina can't easily absorb 241 jobs, then something's wrong.
10/19/2009
putz says....
go out on strike that will show them. sorry but you did it to yourself
10/19/2009
blessed says....
RKC and Mr. Wearing, How do you sleep at night? Now I ask ya, does anyone who might lose thier decent paying job really give a flying flip about whether Salina will be devastated? Really, if you are wondering about how to pay the mortgage and feed your children are you really fixated on whether the situation is devastating to you or to the community as a whole. No one asked for any handouts RKC. No need for that commentary right now. How about some real compassion for those in OUR COMMUNITY whose lives might be changed by the loss fo those jobs. For crying out loud, sometimes I wonder.......
10/19/2009
wife of employee says....
TO RKC: Im a wife of hawker employee! You say it's "our" responsibility and not the taxpayers. WE have paid in enough to the state of Ks, so we will just go get help from the STATE! Why not, there's many others in this town getting STATE aid cuz they don't WANT to work. My husband wants to work, but heck why not take advantage of the state and get assistance like all these other losers and kids having kids they get help from the state but no one says anything to them. We work hard for our money and our taxes go to all these losers that are on STATE AID! At least we want to work, how about doing an article on welfare and how everyone takes advantage of that, maybe our state would have more money to help the people that DO work. We will get through this but that's because my husand loves to work and provide for his family! But if you were in this situation you would at least want some support from others, but thats what is wrong with this town, many of you don't support others. It's very sad
10/19/2009
says....
Actually it was almost 500 jobs lost. Dont forget about those who were already laid off like myself and do not have a chance at going back either...so do not "sugar coat" it as only 241 jobs lost.
10/19/2009
Concerned says....
I have read the article on the Wichita Eagle website, and the article here in the Journal. I have interpreted it as though the CEO is looking to close the Salina Plant. Learning from the article that this CEO has only been with the company since March, he is new and if he values the employees and their skills the way he says he does (from the article) he needs to be COMMUNICATING with the union president and any other management parties from the Salina Plant, so they can tell the members the reason he is saying that it is very likely that the Salina Plant will be closed. If it is over lowering costs, he should say that, and he should work with those in the plant to see where they can reduce costs, he should be honest and upfront about it with the employees who have been loyal and have worked hard for the company,some for many years. If he is planning on sending the jobs to the Mexico plant, he should be concerned about the product that will be assembled or made there. Does Mexico have Quality Control? From one of the articles posted I would be concerned of the additional costs of fixing a defective product that the Mexico employees are making. The additional time and labor costs to fix the defective product made in Mexico is counter productive for the company. In the long run making a defective product will not look good for the company and those companies looking to purchase an aircraft. Also, the article noted that sales will be down in 2010, flat in 2011, and then start growing in 2012. I believe the CEO needs to evaluate all above before he makes a quick decision on closing the plant in Salina. Salina Plant is one of the smaller Plants with experinced workers. Plus these are employees who care about their work and want to keep their families in Salina. This needs to be made known to this CEO by the union president,maangement from the Salina plant, and the City Commissioners. There should be some formal COMMUNICATION made with this CEO with the parties noted above to see what his intentions are and the reasons behind them.
10/18/2009
u suck says....
Ben Wearing Executive Editor U suck
10/18/2009
says....
Wow, how insensitive can you be? The closing of the HBC plant will cause life changing events for the 241 families who rely on those jobs. Families that may have to uproot themselves to a new town and children will have to leave their friends and schools. One upside would be to get out of a town full of selfish,judgemental, snobby people like you!
10/18/2009
A product of the 70's says....
Bravo to the Beech employee for speaking his/her mind! In this economy, the loss of 241 jobs IS DEVASTING! That is 241 people but think about their family! Think about the empty restaurants, the cars not buying gas, kids who may be hungry. So 241 jobs does have an effect on this town! We need to be grateful it was not more. Have faith Salina! There are people who do care! Shame on you Ben Wearing.
10/18/2009
Amen to Hawker Beech employee says....
Devastating? maybe not to Salina as a whole but the trickle down effect will hit Salina by way of taxes not going into the coffers and Payroll not going into bank accounts. Not all 241 employees will be able to keep their jobs by going to Wichita either. Most jobs are being outsourced already. Some employees are couples, who are married and buying homes and when they both are out of work, what do you suppose is going to happen to the housing in Salina.
10/18/2009
RKC says....
Hawker Employee, Mr Wearing didn't say or imply that the loss wouldn't be devastating to the Employees of Hawker. He said it wouldn't devastate Salina; and it won't! The loss of 250 jobs in a city of 50,000 won't be devastating! And the pieces you mention to be picked up, will be your responsibility, not Salina's or the taxpayers! Find another job just like anyone else would! We don't owe you anything! And if you think we do, you are a big reason this Country is headed toward Socialism!
10/18/2009
Hawker Beech Employee says....
You know I am surprised at Ben Wearing and his ridiculous assumptions!! He wants to say that Salina won't be devastated, well sorry if 241 people are insignificant to you, But if you think about it the fact that now hard working, loyal people are going to be without a job or income not only themselves but to their families!!! By the way, who i ask do you think are going to pick up the pieces? Salina and it's residents...unless you expect these people to do without in this not only hard to gain employment but even harder to have an decent income economy!! I am just sorry that your job is so stable... maybe one day you will have to feel the effect of a "DEVASTATING" loss. You should be ashamed of your selfish attitude toward the crippling downfall of so many peoples livelihood. I closing I would like to say to my fellow co-workers, don't give up just yet and keep your heads held high we will get through this and hopefully still have a place to work.
10/17/2009
Salina.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here. Read our full online terms of service policy.
Care says....
My prayers go out to all the families of the workers. Sometimes life doesn't always go as planned. Everyone has been in a tough financial position at one time. What did we do? Downgrade! Buy or Rent a less expensive smaller house. Sell some cars you don't need. Shop at Wal-Mart instead of Dillards.Eat at home instead of going out. Eat Roman noodles instead of steak. Buy only what you need. Everybody I know can live off of $10.00 an hour. Do we want too? NO. But you have to do what you have to. Get two jobs. Just a few suggestions! GOOD LUCK my thoughts are with all of you.
10/21/2009
informed individual says....
Yes it is 500 jobs total. Second -- the city of Salina population is not 50000 it is a hair above 48000 which is where it has been for about 10 years. Third yes we all help pay for college educations to individuals who receive pell grants and govn. subsidezed student loans. Yes it will do more damage than many think once you add in the numerous other loses such as firings and layoffs at Great Plains, hiring freezes at many manufacturing plants, intense competition for even low paying jobs -- which ironically is most of the jobs available. To put some figures to those who make fun of strikes for $20/hr wages. For man/woman/ 1 child Groceries $100 Electric $ 50 Gas $ 75 Water $ 40 Rent $400 Transportation $40 (rides city bus) Total-- $705 Wages 35hrs @ $8 = 280 *2 for 2 weeks = 560 * .8 (taxes and fica) = 464 *2 (two pay periods a month) = $928 - 705 = $213. NOTES: 1)My numbers are very conservative. 2)No phone or cable included (cable is luxury) phone is really nessecity. 3) Does not include clothing 4) Does not include medical 5) Does not include education for child. 6) Gas/water/Elec --average throughout a year 7) Rent is for 2 bedroom. This is also below the poverty line or really close to it. So change rent to house payment, upkeep on house, add vehical, medical insurance -- these things are what most people want and you come close to needing a $20 per hour job for a single income family.
10/21/2009
Reality Check says....
AGAIN IT WILL BE 500, NOT 241, get it right people! Midwest dude, I am sure Salina can absorb the losses...but with what fast food? HBC is skilled labor work that paid well. I do not want a job where I have to compete with a high school kid to keep a job or get a raise. Salina needs more high paying technical, commercial and industrial jobs...not restaurants that noone will be able to afford to eat at. Also, the strike had nothing to do with this and I am anti union and crossed the picket lines. I also wanted to believe the strike was the reason so there were people to blame directly. There is no blame but the economy and its downturn. Bottom line is that more than likely HBC is gone from here and there really is nothing we can do about changing that. However, this city and its so called leaders need to find a way to bring in HIGHER PAYING, skilled labor jobs instead of all of Salina being a restaurant worker. No offense is aimed there but seriously, Salina is like 90% restaurants!
10/21/2009
RKC says....
Blessed, Some real compassion? Good idea. What exactly wil YOU do to help the former Hawker Workers? Give some of them a job? Pay their mortgage? Send their kids to college? Now that would be Real Compassion!
10/20/2009
sj says....
it is very hard to feel sorry for you union people. you have to strike because you do not think that the 20+ dollars and hour you make is enough. no wonder they want to outsource to mexico.
10/20/2009
Hawker Beech Employee says....
RKC.... you're about as uncaring and ridiculous as Ben Wearing. You want to think this won't affect Salina and the taxpayers of this county then your blind and ignorant to the fact of how things work in times such as these!! I also never said anyone owes me or the other employees anything...But it will affect them and the economy, unemployment will go up and government aid will increase... who do you think pays for this?? Again with thinking that it is so easy to just go out and find a job that even comes close to providing adequate support is ludicrous!! You're just as selfish and undereducated as he is! Congrat's on making yourself look and sound like a fool!! To the person who corrected me, I am truly sorry i forgot to mention the hundreds of other people that lost their jobs and stability. This is a devastating thing to the employees, Hawker AND Salina!! It's just unfortunate to live next to such uncaring and heartless people in a time off loss to income and a huge blow to our pride!! Your job will one day come to the cutting room floor and you'll see the impact of Great American employment when it is taxed to Mexico for $4 an hour!!!!
10/20/2009
says....
I worked for many years at Hawker Beech and was told for years that the Salina Plant would close, there is no reason for it to be open we would move parts back and forth from Wichita to Salina and this was not a wise business move. back in the day Mrs. Beech moved some of the operation to Salina to show Wichita that she did not want to pay taxes. Lets get Hawker Beech out of salina and move in more stable jobs. The closing will not hurt Salina but will help it by bring in more stable jobs.
10/20/2009
Practical Economics says....
When the union workers went out on strike against the company, they signed their own termination papers. Employers want workers, not strikers. So enjoy your peanut butter and crackers, strikers, you did it to yourselves by trying to be too greedy.
10/19/2009
Midwest Dude says....
I agree wholeheartedly with the editor, the loss of jobs will NOT be devestating to Salina! Anybody working in the aircraft industry knows how volatile it is....a high paying job one day, then unemployment the next day. I knew this was coming for years and was why I bailed out of Beech when things were still going good. If Salina can't easily absorb 241 jobs, then something's wrong.
10/19/2009
putz says....
go out on strike that will show them. sorry but you did it to yourself
10/19/2009
blessed says....
RKC and Mr. Wearing, How do you sleep at night? Now I ask ya, does anyone who might lose thier decent paying job really give a flying flip about whether Salina will be devastated? Really, if you are wondering about how to pay the mortgage and feed your children are you really fixated on whether the situation is devastating to you or to the community as a whole. No one asked for any handouts RKC. No need for that commentary right now. How about some real compassion for those in OUR COMMUNITY whose lives might be changed by the loss fo those jobs. For crying out loud, sometimes I wonder.......
10/19/2009
wife of employee says....
TO RKC: Im a wife of hawker employee! You say it's "our" responsibility and not the taxpayers. WE have paid in enough to the state of Ks, so we will just go get help from the STATE! Why not, there's many others in this town getting STATE aid cuz they don't WANT to work. My husband wants to work, but heck why not take advantage of the state and get assistance like all these other losers and kids having kids they get help from the state but no one says anything to them. We work hard for our money and our taxes go to all these losers that are on STATE AID! At least we want to work, how about doing an article on welfare and how everyone takes advantage of that, maybe our state would have more money to help the people that DO work. We will get through this but that's because my husand loves to work and provide for his family! But if you were in this situation you would at least want some support from others, but thats what is wrong with this town, many of you don't support others. It's very sad
10/19/2009
says....
Actually it was almost 500 jobs lost. Dont forget about those who were already laid off like myself and do not have a chance at going back either...so do not "sugar coat" it as only 241 jobs lost.
10/19/2009
Concerned says....
I have read the article on the Wichita Eagle website, and the article here in the Journal. I have interpreted it as though the CEO is looking to close the Salina Plant. Learning from the article that this CEO has only been with the company since March, he is new and if he values the employees and their skills the way he says he does (from the article) he needs to be COMMUNICATING with the union president and any other management parties from the Salina Plant, so they can tell the members the reason he is saying that it is very likely that the Salina Plant will be closed. If it is over lowering costs, he should say that, and he should work with those in the plant to see where they can reduce costs, he should be honest and upfront about it with the employees who have been loyal and have worked hard for the company,some for many years. If he is planning on sending the jobs to the Mexico plant, he should be concerned about the product that will be assembled or made there. Does Mexico have Quality Control? From one of the articles posted I would be concerned of the additional costs of fixing a defective product that the Mexico employees are making. The additional time and labor costs to fix the defective product made in Mexico is counter productive for the company. In the long run making a defective product will not look good for the company and those companies looking to purchase an aircraft. Also, the article noted that sales will be down in 2010, flat in 2011, and then start growing in 2012. I believe the CEO needs to evaluate all above before he makes a quick decision on closing the plant in Salina. Salina Plant is one of the smaller Plants with experinced workers. Plus these are employees who care about their work and want to keep their families in Salina. This needs to be made known to this CEO by the union president,maangement from the Salina plant, and the City Commissioners. There should be some formal COMMUNICATION made with this CEO with the parties noted above to see what his intentions are and the reasons behind them.
10/18/2009
u suck says....
Ben Wearing Executive Editor U suck
10/18/2009
says....
Wow, how insensitive can you be? The closing of the HBC plant will cause life changing events for the 241 families who rely on those jobs. Families that may have to uproot themselves to a new town and children will have to leave their friends and schools. One upside would be to get out of a town full of selfish,judgemental, snobby people like you!
10/18/2009
A product of the 70's says....
Bravo to the Beech employee for speaking his/her mind! In this economy, the loss of 241 jobs IS DEVASTING! That is 241 people but think about their family! Think about the empty restaurants, the cars not buying gas, kids who may be hungry. So 241 jobs does have an effect on this town! We need to be grateful it was not more. Have faith Salina! There are people who do care! Shame on you Ben Wearing.
10/18/2009
Amen to Hawker Beech employee says....
Devastating? maybe not to Salina as a whole but the trickle down effect will hit Salina by way of taxes not going into the coffers and Payroll not going into bank accounts. Not all 241 employees will be able to keep their jobs by going to Wichita either. Most jobs are being outsourced already. Some employees are couples, who are married and buying homes and when they both are out of work, what do you suppose is going to happen to the housing in Salina.
10/18/2009
RKC says....
Hawker Employee, Mr Wearing didn't say or imply that the loss wouldn't be devastating to the Employees of Hawker. He said it wouldn't devastate Salina; and it won't! The loss of 250 jobs in a city of 50,000 won't be devastating! And the pieces you mention to be picked up, will be your responsibility, not Salina's or the taxpayers! Find another job just like anyone else would! We don't owe you anything! And if you think we do, you are a big reason this Country is headed toward Socialism!
10/18/2009
Hawker Beech Employee says....
You know I am surprised at Ben Wearing and his ridiculous assumptions!! He wants to say that Salina won't be devastated, well sorry if 241 people are insignificant to you, But if you think about it the fact that now hard working, loyal people are going to be without a job or income not only themselves but to their families!!! By the way, who i ask do you think are going to pick up the pieces? Salina and it's residents...unless you expect these people to do without in this not only hard to gain employment but even harder to have an decent income economy!! I am just sorry that your job is so stable... maybe one day you will have to feel the effect of a "DEVASTATING" loss. You should be ashamed of your selfish attitude toward the crippling downfall of so many peoples livelihood. I closing I would like to say to my fellow co-workers, don't give up just yet and keep your heads held high we will get through this and hopefully still have a place to work.
10/17/2009
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