Think Bush is bad?
12/20/2009
Think Bush is bad?
To my liberal friends who are blaming President Bush for running up a $2.9 trillion debt in his eight years as president: Gosh, that is a lot of money, and I agree that it is way too much debt for any country and its citizens.
By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way.
If you think that's bad, you better lock up your wallets and purses. President Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress are going to surpass President Bush's eight-year toll in their first 20 months and 11 days in office, by adding close to $3.2 trillion -- but who's counting? -- to the national debt.
Do you folks see a pattern development here? Over the past 11 months, every time the liberal party gets into a situation they don't like, it's time to play, "Let's blame it on somebody else."
You can't do it this time; the facts are there in black and white for all to see. Do your homework.
Here's some food for thought: How much more or less would President Bush's budget have been with a totally Republican or an evenly divided Congress? We'll never know.
-- JIM CARRIGAN, Salina, engineering technician
Join the Discussion:
Salina.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here. Read our full online terms of service policy.
independent says....
Glad to see the journal did not post my reply. Go figure!
12/23/2009
says....
I would love for any of you who keep on spewing on and on about "socialism and socialist policies" to actually define socialism or socialist---WITHOUT looking at your dictionary or encyclopedia. I guaranty that most of you can't.
12/22/2009
Informed Individual says....
TO ALL: IF you have not been over to Iraq or Afgan..like I have..You have no place in saying needless war. Much good is coming out of us being over there and yes there was justification, case and point ignoring U.N. Security Council Demands..or would you rather prefer not to do anything until someone actually detonated a nuke.
12/22/2009
Mikes daddy says....
MIKE,you seem so frightened,quit worrying so,socialism is in,you don't have to work,uncle Obama is taking care of you.God speed son..
12/21/2009
DFLover says....
Obama is governing during a recession. It would be fiscally imprudent to balance the budget now. Bush governed during an economic expansion. It was fiscally suicidal for him to not balance the budget and pay down our debt then.
12/21/2009
Already too Burdened says....
Who is going to pay for all this drunk sailor spending? Anybody care?
12/21/2009
obamamama says....
wow are you serious? get real my friend
12/21/2009
Mike says....
How an exceedingly average FOX-fed opinion like this makes it as a link to the Google News page is completely beyond me.
Congrats Joe Republican, you have your 3 minutes of fame. Too bad your grip on the truth is pretty thin. I don't think I need to repeat the facts that were pointed out by just about every poster prior to me. But hey, you're a true American, anti-Socialist Republican. Why bother with basing your opinions on fact when it's so much easier to jack into Fox News' "fair and balanced" media stream?
12/21/2009
Vote em out in 10 & 12 says....
The problem is ALL of these politicians think they are above us. They say one thing and do whatever they want. These bribes being handed out right in front of us are pathetic.
The Bush years were bad but to say "2 wars that were not needed" is insane. Do some of you have short term memory. And the cost of the war is inflated. These people act as though we do not pay the soldiers or feed them or drive the ships during peace time. I was serving during peace time and we operated as though we were at war.
The problem with this health care is the requirement forcing people to have insurance. There are better ways to reform. The other crazy policies of this administration are going to tax the middle class to where we become poor and reliant on the government. If they would battle poverty and create jobs it would solve many more problems. Most of their support base is people who do not want to work and are looking for a free ride.
12/21/2009
socialist smokescreen says....
I was actually encouraged by all these posts that there really are informed, articulate people who are disgusted by all the revisionist right-wing propaganda. Then I read the post from "independent." I won't even respond to your "Obama hates America" rant. But this constant attack on his "socialist" agenda is so utterly hypocritical. What do you consider socialist programs? How about farm subsidies, veterans benefits, Medicare, Social Security, unemployment insurance,disaster relief like FEMA, etc. etc. Are any of those "socialist" programs? If so, which ones would you like to eliminate? And would you care to put that in writing, please?
12/21/2009
truthisgood! says....
CHRIS thanks for the link with the REAL stats on Obama vs. Bushs true spending and debt figures. This whole article looked like it needed fact checking? James Frey needs some company.
12/21/2009
Tammy B. says....
Its pretty hard to predict the future but Obama has only been in office for 11 months. Give they guy and his policies of change a chance to work. We should all hope and pray these policies will lead us out of the economic holacost he inherited from the previous administration.
12/21/2009
Mrs. Fields says....
How much of the debt under Obama is cleaning up bush's War in Iraq (a country with no direct threat against America)and other political and social malfuntions? Bush cost us dearly amongst our allies as well as the other nations. Thank God we don't have George Bush to get us all killed with his useless and sensless agendas.
12/21/2009
says....
doooo says....
The two party system has failed us. How bad does it have to get before people in this country make a change. I don't care whether you're a republican or democrat I want someone to turn this country around. All the politicians we have today say one thing to get money from everyone and their PACs then do the opposite when they are elected. THEY ALL LOVE THEIR PARTY MORE THAN THEY LOVE AMERICA!!!! Politicians should only be elected for a term or two and then GET OUT AND FIND A REAL JOB LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
12/21/2009
Peg says....
Bush was somewhat bad,B.O. is abhorrent.But Obama is so changy,hopey,feel good even if its bad..lets all just hide our heads in the sand and blame Bush.Its Obamas administration now and he owns it...
12/21/2009
says....
um...so there!
12/21/2009
G Dub was the devil says....
G Dub was too arrogant to realize that he should apologize. At least the WHOLE world doesn't hate us any more.
12/21/2009
I can feel the tremors; a quake is coming. says....
The libs do not care about suggestions! They are going to ram it down our throats regardless of the most dire consequences. Also, since the government run school systems do not teach what the building blocks were that founded this country. The Dems can rewrite history as they see fit and the children will not know what they have given up.
12/21/2009
Son of Sam says....
In some countries if someone made an obviously false statement like that they would be taken out and shot next to a ditch. Your lucky you live on America.
12/21/2009
Mike says....
Are you kidding? Bush saddled this nation with many more trillions of dollars of obligations, in addition to the debt he ran up. Obama now needs to pay for those obligations. The current budgetary problems are still Bush's fault.
12/21/2009
bushwacker says....
I don't think Bush is bad, Bush is simply a buy-now-pay-later guy. Everything he does, from tax cuts to the Iraq war, he has no spending plan. to back up his actions, as if money will mysteriously always materialize from somewhere. He is typical of some Americans out there, up to the neck in debt bcos they lost control over their arithmetic and impulses.
12/21/2009
Reminder says....
Mr. Carrigan asserts "By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Need I remind that Bush had a REPUBLICAN congress for 6 of the 8 years he was president? Much of the massive debt was racked up during that time. Sorry, needed to point that out.
12/21/2009
Andy says....
At the end of the Clinton administration, the national debt was 5Billion and dropping. At the end of the Bush II admininistration, national debt was 12B. BushII tax cut was four times bigger the health care bill ..... we borrowed money from china for tax cuts, we borrowed money from china for Bush's medicare plan and two wars....... don't let facts get in the way......
12/20/2009
independent says....
They are all in it for themselves! I will say George Bush didnt run around apologizing to everybody though. I honestly think Obama hates America and is trying to destroy it by implementing socialism one program at a time. socialism
12/20/2009
illlini says....
The 208th and 209th congress were GOP, Do your homework. And to answer your question, I know Bush was bad, not just think.
12/20/2009
Concerned says....
Don't know who you're talking to, but I run with a very liberal crowd, and they don't play that blame game. This is Obama's game now, and we all know that. Your fighting a windmill there.
I will say that this post reflects what I often see in conservative circles: angry criticism with no useful insight or suggestions.
12/20/2009
Anthony says....
Your post is out of context and ridiculous.
Unfortunately it does take a lot of money to correct years of abuse.
Most of it is repair and some of it is investment.
12/20/2009
says....
Does Jim not realize that congress was Republican controlled until 1/20/2007?
12/20/2009
RJUBT says....
ummm...
Bush had a Republican majority in both houses of Congress from 2003 to 2007. He also had a majority in 1 house from 2001 to 2003. Bush and the Republican congress was grossly fiscally irresponsible during that entire period. Dick Cheney even commented at one point in regards to the administration's profligacy that "deficits don't matter". Selective memory is not a useful tool for analysis.
12/20/2009
John G says....
There is a difference between money wasted an money invested.
For example: Starting an unneeded a fruitless war in Iraq was a waste of resources on which the average US citizen will see no return.
On the contrary, health care for every American citizen is an investment because we the citizens will no longer lose our homes to out of control insurance premiums and denied claims. Fewer foreclosures means healthier banks. Healthier banks means more lending. More lending means economic growth, and higher education.
But is is an investment. And like all investments it will take time to mature and there is risk.
BTW, Bush had control of both branches of congress and the supreme court from 02-06.
12/20/2009
visitorzero says....
Actually, Congress was held primarily by Republicans during the Bush Administration.
1999-06/2001: R Majority
06/2001-11/2002: D Majority
11/2002-2007: R Majority
2007-2009: D Majority
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/one_item_and_teasers/partydiv.htm
Both periods of Democratic majorities were only one-seat majorities.
12/20/2009
Baconaise says....
Republicans had control of the senate and house from 2000 until 2006. 6 years of Bush's presidency. Bush started with a surplus of $3 trillion and after 8 years and 6 years of TOTAL control we ended up being $12 trillion in debt. You need a modern history lesson, son.
Now let's discuss Obamas spending. Picture a giant sky scraper and a city underneath it. When Bush left office this skyscraper was about to fall over and the concussion of that fall would put us into a depression we can't even fathom. Obama is spending money to put up planks to SLOWLY bring the sky scraper down, instead of letting it fall and destroy everything with it. It's a controlled demolition of something worse than a monopoly, we call it "to-big-to-fail." Obamas spending thus far has been to reduce the concussion of that skyscrapers fall and to build up other smaller skyscrapers to take that behemoths place.
12/20/2009
Ken says....
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Dude, seriously? Check again, that Democratic-controlled congress that you speak of was for TWO of Bush's EIGHT years in office. What about the 75% of the time he was in office, with a REPUBLICAN controlled congress?
Debt raises exponentially all the time. It's also interesting how conservatives were A OK with trillion dollar debt when it was funding a republican's war, but it becomes a crime against god when a democrat raises debt to help poor people. USA! USA!
12/20/2009
thompa says....
Well, if Bush hadn't taken us into two wars needlessly causing thousands of our men to die, we would all be a lot better off and not in debt!
12/20/2009
TryLeading says....
Yes, we do think Bush is bad. Thanks for asking.
12/20/2009
says....
Um, he had a Republican controlled congress for 6 of his 8 years in office. Both houses. Where were you? They broke all records for pork spending.
12/20/2009
History isn't what you think it is says....
If Bush's term hadn't ended this year, we would still have spent the same money on one time stimulus measures. Don't pretend Bush was against it. He started it. You're aware that TARP bailouts were signed into law by Bush, right?
Pretending that Obama has greatly expanded government spending by pointing to these one time stimulus and bailout measures is plainly dishonest.
Also, Bush's only attempt to "work with" the Democrats was to declare he had a popular mandate (which, of course, he didn't) and invite the Democrats to follow his lead. He accepted no input and made no compromises.
As far as the question of Bush having a fully Republican Congress, actually we do know something about that. Every year Bush was President, the Democrats proposed budgets smaller than the Republicans ended up signing into law.
12/20/2009
Chris says....
Jim, Bush had a Democratic controlled congress for only 2 yrs of his 8 as President. And even then, the dems didn't have enough votes to override his vetoes. So, I guess we do know how much debt would be racked up with a republican controlled congress and a republican president. As far as the debt left by Bush, does that include the amount of money used for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that was kept off the budget and deficit?
Below is a link to what appears to be a conservative thinking page that tracks Obama's debt. As of today, Dec. 17, the debt under Obama had gone up by not quite $1.5 Trillion, as opposed to the $3.2 trillion as you suggest. Also, you claim Bush ran up a $2.9 Trillion debt, when, in fact, it was about $5 Trillion, the CBS link below states what the debt was when Bush was inaugurated, the earlier link shows the debt on Obama's inauguration...so, who's counting, obviously not you.
http://www.theobamadebt.com/
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/29/couricandco/entry4486228.shtml
12/20/2009
Mike G says....
Yes, I think Bush is bad.
I thought it was funny how liberals and democrats spent so much time mocking him after he repeatedly violated constitutional law, couldn't make complete sentences, and made a mockery of freedom and democracy with the way his administration acted day-to-day, until I saw the Republicans follow suit without waiting for anything to happen. It was enough that it was a Democrat was in office to unleash the hounds, but a smart, articulate, black Democrat? That's just too much for the right to handle.
Don't talk to me about the blame game or large budgets when the ONLY person from the previous administration to NOT poke at the current administration is W himself, and that is probably because he can't put a coherent thought together on his own.
Disagreement with the man is one thing, and in politics I want disagreement that generates informed, respectful dialogue. Both sides are guilty of making it personal, which is one more reason that both sides should go away. Neither the Democrat or the Republican parties accurately represent the public at large, just deep pockets and big business.
The moral of the story is change your diaper and keep your mouth shut unless you are willing to take a critical look at both sides.
12/20/2009
john allen says....
seems like jim carriagan needs to "do [his] homework" when he writes: "President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way."
From the Washington Post on December 10, 2006
"Demoralized Republicans adjourned the 109th Congress at 5 a.m. yesterday with a near-empty Capitol, closing the door on a dozen years of nearly unbroken GOP control ..."
12/20/2009
jfm says....
are you for real?
12/20/2009
Chuck says....
Ridiculous assertion. Republicans controlled both houses for the majority of Bush's two terms. Tax cuts for the wealthy and two wars (both Repub initiatives) are what ran up the debt. Seriously, do some fact checking before you write!
12/20/2009
HONEST AMERICAN says....
Try 9.7 TRILLION !That does not include the war that we are still in .
12/20/2009
moose149 says....
The main difference is that Clinton left W with a good economy and a budget SURPLUS while Obama took over during a financial meltdown.
12/20/2009
sabotosh says....
Jim so I guess you would rather NOT have the current administration (continue with the last administration policy) of doing whatever was necessary to prop up the US banking system.
Would you rather have the dollar fail, rioting, social panic, and general social disorder as the US' economics wheels came off.
That is the difference between pragmatism and ideology. And with Healthcare, energy, the environment I'm guessing you would rather not take any proactive actions to prevent future system failures.
Let's just make everything vitriolic and not deal with anything that may cause us to confront sacrifices.
12/20/2009
anonymous says....
Your math on Bush running up the debt is faulty. Dubya ran up the debt 5.1 trillion, not 2.9 trillion, as you claim
12/20/2009
says....
This observation is absolutely true.
And perfectly taken out of context.
Over the last five presidents, the Democrats have left DC with excedents budgets, the Republicans with defecits.
Yes - of course Mr Bush didn't spend any money in the beginning of his administration because Clinton left lots of money in the bank.
Now how do you explain the fact that average salaries have not gone up at all over the last ten years but the part of wealth that the top 10% has increased massively?
Looks like Bush and Co's close intimacy with industrial leaders and Wall Street which brought us outsourcing, hightech transformation and worthless mortgages without investing in training and infrastructure (you know: highways, sewers, hospitals, parks, schools, libraries) has paid off nicely for the average American.
PS His congress was only democratically dominated the last two of his eight years.
12/20/2009
Toots McGee says....
The difference is that the money being spent now is to repair the damage done over the past 8 years. It's largely unavoidable, and not the same situation as something like voluntarily choosing to fund 2 military operations.
12/20/2009
GOP74 says....
Bush caused the debt and recession we are in. We spent lots of money to get us out of the Bush recession & that thankfully worked.
12/20/2009
AusTex says....
No President was worse than Bush Jr., Not Ever!
12/20/2009
says....
Obama inherited a mess from the Bush/Cheney Administration. What is Obama supposed to do not
try and fix our country. It is going to take money to correct the mess created by Bush and Cheney. Until these two came into office America was doing just fine.
Bush and Cheney created a disaster and Obama hs to clean it up.
12/20/2009
says....
What? Where you here during the years 2000-2006 or don't they count?
12/20/2009
says....
So wrong. So, so wrong.
12/20/2009
says....
Half of that debt is part of the TARP that was signed before Obama entered office. You have to consider that Obama was left with a country with the worst economy in 80yrs history. Obama increased spending which increased debt. A republican administration would have keep spending the same but lowered taxes dramatically for big banks and big corporations (not small businesses)which would put us in debt too. I dislike both parties, they represent only their big contributing lobbyist. This country has been split into a extreme far left or right. People come to the center, This is were the logical, rational, non-radical, non-extremist, free-thinking, non-controlled, and level-head people reside. Stop believing everything a party talking-head says. Neither party is for the middle-class so stop and think for yourself and make your country better. VOTE FOR A NEW PARTY.
12/20/2009
says....
When Bush was sworn in on January 20, 2001, the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64.
When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08.
The growth in the national debt during his eight years in office: $4,899,100,310,608.44.
The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05.
During much of Bush's tenure, he had a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate.
12/20/2009
Benjy says....
No
12/20/2009
says....
How long can people invoke the name of Bush as the cause of all troubles? I didn't vote for him either time, but blaming him for present day troubles will eventually backfire.
12/20/2009
Fred says....
You don't mention that Bush inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton.
12/20/2009
bliss says....
Good points. However, Obama is taking a gamble that this short term debt will lead us out of a more long term economic slump (some say crisis). Not sure if the gamble will work, but the debt Obama is racking up is intended to avert further economic troubles. Countries across Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are taking similar measures. Another point I would like to bring up...Bush had six years of GOP control of the executive and legislative branches of govt. Only in his last two years did Democrats have control of the legislative branch. Kinda hard to blame democrats for Bush's debt. Bush borrowed more money from foreign sources than all of the previous presidents combined. This is no defense of Obama, but it is impossible to ignore the example Bush sent.
12/20/2009
Matthew Petrucci says....
The size of the current deficit can be attributed to the economic rescue packages that Obama implemented in his first several months. Tarp Alone counts for a little under a quarter of them 3.2 trillion dollars you mentioned. It's currently being paid back by several banks. The country is turning around again economically. The dow is back over 10,000. While some banks are still failing, others are strengthening themselves. The worst kind of action against bank failure and a poor economy is inaction. Without Obama's step to curve the economy's fall we would be in very dire straights now.
Has Obama spent allot of money since he entered office. The simple answer is yes. But the fact that lies beneath that answer is that the money is going to help the American people, and to stabilize the economy. When the government invests money into the national economy people are put to work, They earn salaries, and they buy new things. The government makes the money back in taxes and many of the programs will generate income for the government directly as well as putting people to work.
I'm not really interested in what Bush's deficit would be if he had a republican senate and congress because that was a completely different situation. What's important now is to focus on where the country is headed, if the course is good for the country and it's people and above all else if the course is leading the country astray; how can we as American's help to put our country back on the right course. Government spending and regulation now is the safest way to stimulate the economy. Infrastructure improvements will benefit everyone, and create jobs, and generate revenue. Thats what the country needs now. That will put us back on the course to prosperity. Taxes today are nothing like the taxes of the 40's and 50s. Things could be worse and they have been much worse. Take the steps to solve the problem now before it becomes much more grievous.
12/20/2009
BILL L says....
Right, right, except that the democrats were chicken and could never find their guts. They were always afraid, like children, of being labeled as unpatriotic, soft on defense, or what ever else could be cooked up by Cheney, Rove, and the other excellent obfuscators that preach the gospel of innuendo and half truth.
Pres. Bush exercised his veto power minimally; 12 Times compared to his father's 44 times and Ronald Reagan's 78 times. Its self-evident that he was not to distraught by the crap the Democrats and the Republicans were sending to him. Bush and his party influenced the process in Congress and the Democratic majority far better than you and others now will admit.
12/20/2009
SB says....
Perhaps you should wake up out of your republican induced stupor Jimmy.
Bush had a Republican Congress for 6 years of his tenure. It was only during his last two years that there was a Democratic majority in Congress.
12/20/2009
Rob says....
The Republicans controlled the White House and Congress (House & Senate) during the first four years of W's presidency and demonstrated to their admitted shame that their supposed conservatism went out the windows once they got hold of the national checkbook.
12/20/2009
Norm S says....
To quote the biaed logic--
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way.
'
What a cop out defense! Of the 8 years B Boy was Pres 6 of were controled by the spend but don't tax Republicans.
And in fairness to your hero - those last two years he did a better job that the 1st 6
12/20/2009
Rich Belmont says....
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Well, let's see what is wrong with this revisionist history: First of all, the Democrats didn't control Congress for the eight years that Bush was president. Second, more often then not the Democrats rolled over and played dead as Bush cut taxes and raised spending. (Voodoo economics anyone?)
12/20/2009
Ed T. says....
The only way to solve the runaway government is to require each congressman to represent their district by voting according to their constituents desires (bi-partisan) on any issue that increases the national debt. It seems that they only vote along party lines or what is in their self-interest.
12/20/2009
robmo35 says....
This is'nt debate it's just rank speculation. I mean the logic behind such an article is non existent. What would have happened if we didn't have an economic collapse? We will never know. What would have happened if 9/11 never happened. This is the childish silliness you get when an engineering tech with an agenda, stop criticizing Bush Obama is just as bad and its all the Democrats fault anyway, writes a letter.
12/20/2009
razum says....
You are correct. Democrats are adding to the national debt but you must ask 'why?'. George and friends added to our debt load for a war most of us didn't want and in a country which didn't even attack the US.
Obama is spending money on what? Bailing out 300 million people addicted to credit. Is it his fault our ours?
12/20/2009
Kristel F. says....
It only took Clinton 8 years to clean up 16 years of Republican crap. There's still time.
12/20/2009
Merry Christmas says....
Jesus was a Liberal. What ever happened to him? Oh yeah. He shouldn't have messed with the status quo. If he had only partnered with them money lenders, and war mongers everything would have been just fine.
12/20/2009
Sry bout ur luk says....
Bush spent his money on an unnecessary war. Obama is spending his trying to fix our nations health care. No comparison, none at all.
12/20/2009
Scott, Lawrence says....
Democrats & Republicans- Sick of all of them. They're all out for themselves. Not a one of them is a Patriot. We need someone to step up or the US is going over the edge with obama.
He is wrong. & he's inexperienced. Palin was right. Why didn't we listen?
12/20/2009
dbnunn says....
All the problems of mankind is caused by governments of men, just as God told Samuel when the Israelites decided they wanted men to rule them instead of God. Certainly, the liberals are driving America to its destruction, but only a little faster than the conservatives.
12/20/2009
Salina.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here. Read our full online terms of service policy.
Jake says....
TO SAYS! Ask and you recieve....Socialism is simply big government...with the government having control of every aspect of your life possible...F.Y.I.,it doesn't work and never has for the populus
12/25/2009
independent says....
Glad to see the journal did not post my reply. Go figure!
12/23/2009
says....
I would love for any of you who keep on spewing on and on about "socialism and socialist policies" to actually define socialism or socialist---WITHOUT looking at your dictionary or encyclopedia. I guaranty that most of you can't.
12/22/2009
Informed Individual says....
TO ALL: IF you have not been over to Iraq or Afgan..like I have..You have no place in saying needless war. Much good is coming out of us being over there and yes there was justification, case and point ignoring U.N. Security Council Demands..or would you rather prefer not to do anything until someone actually detonated a nuke.
12/22/2009
Mikes daddy says....
MIKE,you seem so frightened,quit worrying so,socialism is in,you don't have to work,uncle Obama is taking care of you.God speed son..
12/21/2009
DFLover says....
Obama is governing during a recession. It would be fiscally imprudent to balance the budget now. Bush governed during an economic expansion. It was fiscally suicidal for him to not balance the budget and pay down our debt then.
12/21/2009
Already too Burdened says....
Who is going to pay for all this drunk sailor spending? Anybody care?
12/21/2009
obamamama says....
wow are you serious? get real my friend
12/21/2009
Mike says....
How an exceedingly average FOX-fed opinion like this makes it as a link to the Google News page is completely beyond me.
Congrats Joe Republican, you have your 3 minutes of fame. Too bad your grip on the truth is pretty thin. I don't think I need to repeat the facts that were pointed out by just about every poster prior to me. But hey, you're a true American, anti-Socialist Republican. Why bother with basing your opinions on fact when it's so much easier to jack into Fox News' "fair and balanced" media stream?
12/21/2009
Vote em out in 10 & 12 says....
The problem is ALL of these politicians think they are above us. They say one thing and do whatever they want. These bribes being handed out right in front of us are pathetic.
The Bush years were bad but to say "2 wars that were not needed" is insane. Do some of you have short term memory. And the cost of the war is inflated. These people act as though we do not pay the soldiers or feed them or drive the ships during peace time. I was serving during peace time and we operated as though we were at war.
The problem with this health care is the requirement forcing people to have insurance. There are better ways to reform. The other crazy policies of this administration are going to tax the middle class to where we become poor and reliant on the government. If they would battle poverty and create jobs it would solve many more problems. Most of their support base is people who do not want to work and are looking for a free ride.
12/21/2009
socialist smokescreen says....
I was actually encouraged by all these posts that there really are informed, articulate people who are disgusted by all the revisionist right-wing propaganda. Then I read the post from "independent." I won't even respond to your "Obama hates America" rant. But this constant attack on his "socialist" agenda is so utterly hypocritical. What do you consider socialist programs? How about farm subsidies, veterans benefits, Medicare, Social Security, unemployment insurance,disaster relief like FEMA, etc. etc. Are any of those "socialist" programs? If so, which ones would you like to eliminate? And would you care to put that in writing, please?
12/21/2009
truthisgood! says....
CHRIS thanks for the link with the REAL stats on Obama vs. Bushs true spending and debt figures. This whole article looked like it needed fact checking? James Frey needs some company.
12/21/2009
Tammy B. says....
Its pretty hard to predict the future but Obama has only been in office for 11 months. Give they guy and his policies of change a chance to work. We should all hope and pray these policies will lead us out of the economic holacost he inherited from the previous administration.
12/21/2009
Mrs. Fields says....
How much of the debt under Obama is cleaning up bush's War in Iraq (a country with no direct threat against America)and other political and social malfuntions? Bush cost us dearly amongst our allies as well as the other nations. Thank God we don't have George Bush to get us all killed with his useless and sensless agendas.
12/21/2009
says....
doooo says....
The two party system has failed us. How bad does it have to get before people in this country make a change. I don't care whether you're a republican or democrat I want someone to turn this country around. All the politicians we have today say one thing to get money from everyone and their PACs then do the opposite when they are elected. THEY ALL LOVE THEIR PARTY MORE THAN THEY LOVE AMERICA!!!! Politicians should only be elected for a term or two and then GET OUT AND FIND A REAL JOB LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
12/21/2009
Peg says....
Bush was somewhat bad,B.O. is abhorrent.But Obama is so changy,hopey,feel good even if its bad..lets all just hide our heads in the sand and blame Bush.Its Obamas administration now and he owns it...
12/21/2009
says....
um...so there!
12/21/2009
G Dub was the devil says....
G Dub was too arrogant to realize that he should apologize. At least the WHOLE world doesn't hate us any more.
12/21/2009
I can feel the tremors; a quake is coming. says....
The libs do not care about suggestions! They are going to ram it down our throats regardless of the most dire consequences. Also, since the government run school systems do not teach what the building blocks were that founded this country. The Dems can rewrite history as they see fit and the children will not know what they have given up.
12/21/2009
Son of Sam says....
In some countries if someone made an obviously false statement like that they would be taken out and shot next to a ditch. Your lucky you live on America.
12/21/2009
Mike says....
Are you kidding? Bush saddled this nation with many more trillions of dollars of obligations, in addition to the debt he ran up. Obama now needs to pay for those obligations. The current budgetary problems are still Bush's fault.
12/21/2009
bushwacker says....
I don't think Bush is bad, Bush is simply a buy-now-pay-later guy. Everything he does, from tax cuts to the Iraq war, he has no spending plan. to back up his actions, as if money will mysteriously always materialize from somewhere. He is typical of some Americans out there, up to the neck in debt bcos they lost control over their arithmetic and impulses.
12/21/2009
Reminder says....
Mr. Carrigan asserts "By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Need I remind that Bush had a REPUBLICAN congress for 6 of the 8 years he was president? Much of the massive debt was racked up during that time. Sorry, needed to point that out.
12/21/2009
Andy says....
At the end of the Clinton administration, the national debt was 5Billion and dropping. At the end of the Bush II admininistration, national debt was 12B. BushII tax cut was four times bigger the health care bill ..... we borrowed money from china for tax cuts, we borrowed money from china for Bush's medicare plan and two wars....... don't let facts get in the way......
12/20/2009
independent says....
They are all in it for themselves! I will say George Bush didnt run around apologizing to everybody though. I honestly think Obama hates America and is trying to destroy it by implementing socialism one program at a time. socialism
12/20/2009
illlini says....
The 208th and 209th congress were GOP, Do your homework. And to answer your question, I know Bush was bad, not just think.
12/20/2009
Concerned says....
Don't know who you're talking to, but I run with a very liberal crowd, and they don't play that blame game. This is Obama's game now, and we all know that. Your fighting a windmill there.
I will say that this post reflects what I often see in conservative circles: angry criticism with no useful insight or suggestions.
12/20/2009
Anthony says....
Your post is out of context and ridiculous.
Unfortunately it does take a lot of money to correct years of abuse.
Most of it is repair and some of it is investment.
12/20/2009
says....
Does Jim not realize that congress was Republican controlled until 1/20/2007?
12/20/2009
RJUBT says....
ummm...
Bush had a Republican majority in both houses of Congress from 2003 to 2007. He also had a majority in 1 house from 2001 to 2003. Bush and the Republican congress was grossly fiscally irresponsible during that entire period. Dick Cheney even commented at one point in regards to the administration's profligacy that "deficits don't matter". Selective memory is not a useful tool for analysis.
12/20/2009
John G says....
There is a difference between money wasted an money invested.
For example: Starting an unneeded a fruitless war in Iraq was a waste of resources on which the average US citizen will see no return.
On the contrary, health care for every American citizen is an investment because we the citizens will no longer lose our homes to out of control insurance premiums and denied claims. Fewer foreclosures means healthier banks. Healthier banks means more lending. More lending means economic growth, and higher education.
But is is an investment. And like all investments it will take time to mature and there is risk.
BTW, Bush had control of both branches of congress and the supreme court from 02-06.
12/20/2009
visitorzero says....
Actually, Congress was held primarily by Republicans during the Bush Administration.
1999-06/2001: R Majority
06/2001-11/2002: D Majority
11/2002-2007: R Majority
2007-2009: D Majority
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/one_item_and_teasers/partydiv.htm
Both periods of Democratic majorities were only one-seat majorities.
12/20/2009
Baconaise says....
Republicans had control of the senate and house from 2000 until 2006. 6 years of Bush's presidency. Bush started with a surplus of $3 trillion and after 8 years and 6 years of TOTAL control we ended up being $12 trillion in debt. You need a modern history lesson, son.
Now let's discuss Obamas spending. Picture a giant sky scraper and a city underneath it. When Bush left office this skyscraper was about to fall over and the concussion of that fall would put us into a depression we can't even fathom. Obama is spending money to put up planks to SLOWLY bring the sky scraper down, instead of letting it fall and destroy everything with it. It's a controlled demolition of something worse than a monopoly, we call it "to-big-to-fail." Obamas spending thus far has been to reduce the concussion of that skyscrapers fall and to build up other smaller skyscrapers to take that behemoths place.
12/20/2009
Ken says....
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Dude, seriously? Check again, that Democratic-controlled congress that you speak of was for TWO of Bush's EIGHT years in office. What about the 75% of the time he was in office, with a REPUBLICAN controlled congress?
Debt raises exponentially all the time. It's also interesting how conservatives were A OK with trillion dollar debt when it was funding a republican's war, but it becomes a crime against god when a democrat raises debt to help poor people. USA! USA!
12/20/2009
thompa says....
Well, if Bush hadn't taken us into two wars needlessly causing thousands of our men to die, we would all be a lot better off and not in debt!
12/20/2009
TryLeading says....
Yes, we do think Bush is bad. Thanks for asking.
12/20/2009
says....
Um, he had a Republican controlled congress for 6 of his 8 years in office. Both houses. Where were you? They broke all records for pork spending.
12/20/2009
History isn't what you think it is says....
If Bush's term hadn't ended this year, we would still have spent the same money on one time stimulus measures. Don't pretend Bush was against it. He started it. You're aware that TARP bailouts were signed into law by Bush, right?
Pretending that Obama has greatly expanded government spending by pointing to these one time stimulus and bailout measures is plainly dishonest.
Also, Bush's only attempt to "work with" the Democrats was to declare he had a popular mandate (which, of course, he didn't) and invite the Democrats to follow his lead. He accepted no input and made no compromises.
As far as the question of Bush having a fully Republican Congress, actually we do know something about that. Every year Bush was President, the Democrats proposed budgets smaller than the Republicans ended up signing into law.
12/20/2009
Chris says....
Jim, Bush had a Democratic controlled congress for only 2 yrs of his 8 as President. And even then, the dems didn't have enough votes to override his vetoes. So, I guess we do know how much debt would be racked up with a republican controlled congress and a republican president. As far as the debt left by Bush, does that include the amount of money used for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that was kept off the budget and deficit?
Below is a link to what appears to be a conservative thinking page that tracks Obama's debt. As of today, Dec. 17, the debt under Obama had gone up by not quite $1.5 Trillion, as opposed to the $3.2 trillion as you suggest. Also, you claim Bush ran up a $2.9 Trillion debt, when, in fact, it was about $5 Trillion, the CBS link below states what the debt was when Bush was inaugurated, the earlier link shows the debt on Obama's inauguration...so, who's counting, obviously not you.
http://www.theobamadebt.com/
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/29/couricandco/entry4486228.shtml
12/20/2009
Mike G says....
Yes, I think Bush is bad.
I thought it was funny how liberals and democrats spent so much time mocking him after he repeatedly violated constitutional law, couldn't make complete sentences, and made a mockery of freedom and democracy with the way his administration acted day-to-day, until I saw the Republicans follow suit without waiting for anything to happen. It was enough that it was a Democrat was in office to unleash the hounds, but a smart, articulate, black Democrat? That's just too much for the right to handle.
Don't talk to me about the blame game or large budgets when the ONLY person from the previous administration to NOT poke at the current administration is W himself, and that is probably because he can't put a coherent thought together on his own.
Disagreement with the man is one thing, and in politics I want disagreement that generates informed, respectful dialogue. Both sides are guilty of making it personal, which is one more reason that both sides should go away. Neither the Democrat or the Republican parties accurately represent the public at large, just deep pockets and big business.
The moral of the story is change your diaper and keep your mouth shut unless you are willing to take a critical look at both sides.
12/20/2009
john allen says....
seems like jim carriagan needs to "do [his] homework" when he writes: "President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way."
From the Washington Post on December 10, 2006
"Demoralized Republicans adjourned the 109th Congress at 5 a.m. yesterday with a near-empty Capitol, closing the door on a dozen years of nearly unbroken GOP control ..."
12/20/2009
jfm says....
are you for real?
12/20/2009
Chuck says....
Ridiculous assertion. Republicans controlled both houses for the majority of Bush's two terms. Tax cuts for the wealthy and two wars (both Repub initiatives) are what ran up the debt. Seriously, do some fact checking before you write!
12/20/2009
HONEST AMERICAN says....
Try 9.7 TRILLION !That does not include the war that we are still in .
12/20/2009
moose149 says....
The main difference is that Clinton left W with a good economy and a budget SURPLUS while Obama took over during a financial meltdown.
12/20/2009
sabotosh says....
Jim so I guess you would rather NOT have the current administration (continue with the last administration policy) of doing whatever was necessary to prop up the US banking system.
Would you rather have the dollar fail, rioting, social panic, and general social disorder as the US' economics wheels came off.
That is the difference between pragmatism and ideology. And with Healthcare, energy, the environment I'm guessing you would rather not take any proactive actions to prevent future system failures.
Let's just make everything vitriolic and not deal with anything that may cause us to confront sacrifices.
12/20/2009
anonymous says....
Your math on Bush running up the debt is faulty. Dubya ran up the debt 5.1 trillion, not 2.9 trillion, as you claim
12/20/2009
says....
This observation is absolutely true.
And perfectly taken out of context.
Over the last five presidents, the Democrats have left DC with excedents budgets, the Republicans with defecits.
Yes - of course Mr Bush didn't spend any money in the beginning of his administration because Clinton left lots of money in the bank.
Now how do you explain the fact that average salaries have not gone up at all over the last ten years but the part of wealth that the top 10% has increased massively?
Looks like Bush and Co's close intimacy with industrial leaders and Wall Street which brought us outsourcing, hightech transformation and worthless mortgages without investing in training and infrastructure (you know: highways, sewers, hospitals, parks, schools, libraries) has paid off nicely for the average American.
PS His congress was only democratically dominated the last two of his eight years.
12/20/2009
Toots McGee says....
The difference is that the money being spent now is to repair the damage done over the past 8 years. It's largely unavoidable, and not the same situation as something like voluntarily choosing to fund 2 military operations.
12/20/2009
GOP74 says....
Bush caused the debt and recession we are in. We spent lots of money to get us out of the Bush recession & that thankfully worked.
12/20/2009
AusTex says....
No President was worse than Bush Jr., Not Ever!
12/20/2009
says....
Obama inherited a mess from the Bush/Cheney Administration. What is Obama supposed to do not
try and fix our country. It is going to take money to correct the mess created by Bush and Cheney. Until these two came into office America was doing just fine.
Bush and Cheney created a disaster and Obama hs to clean it up.
12/20/2009
says....
What? Where you here during the years 2000-2006 or don't they count?
12/20/2009
says....
So wrong. So, so wrong.
12/20/2009
says....
Half of that debt is part of the TARP that was signed before Obama entered office. You have to consider that Obama was left with a country with the worst economy in 80yrs history. Obama increased spending which increased debt. A republican administration would have keep spending the same but lowered taxes dramatically for big banks and big corporations (not small businesses)which would put us in debt too. I dislike both parties, they represent only their big contributing lobbyist. This country has been split into a extreme far left or right. People come to the center, This is were the logical, rational, non-radical, non-extremist, free-thinking, non-controlled, and level-head people reside. Stop believing everything a party talking-head says. Neither party is for the middle-class so stop and think for yourself and make your country better. VOTE FOR A NEW PARTY.
12/20/2009
says....
When Bush was sworn in on January 20, 2001, the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64.
When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08.
The growth in the national debt during his eight years in office: $4,899,100,310,608.44.
The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05.
During much of Bush's tenure, he had a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate.
12/20/2009
Benjy says....
No
12/20/2009
says....
How long can people invoke the name of Bush as the cause of all troubles? I didn't vote for him either time, but blaming him for present day troubles will eventually backfire.
12/20/2009
Fred says....
You don't mention that Bush inherited a surplus from Bill Clinton.
12/20/2009
bliss says....
Good points. However, Obama is taking a gamble that this short term debt will lead us out of a more long term economic slump (some say crisis). Not sure if the gamble will work, but the debt Obama is racking up is intended to avert further economic troubles. Countries across Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are taking similar measures. Another point I would like to bring up...Bush had six years of GOP control of the executive and legislative branches of govt. Only in his last two years did Democrats have control of the legislative branch. Kinda hard to blame democrats for Bush's debt. Bush borrowed more money from foreign sources than all of the previous presidents combined. This is no defense of Obama, but it is impossible to ignore the example Bush sent.
12/20/2009
Matthew Petrucci says....
The size of the current deficit can be attributed to the economic rescue packages that Obama implemented in his first several months. Tarp Alone counts for a little under a quarter of them 3.2 trillion dollars you mentioned. It's currently being paid back by several banks. The country is turning around again economically. The dow is back over 10,000. While some banks are still failing, others are strengthening themselves. The worst kind of action against bank failure and a poor economy is inaction. Without Obama's step to curve the economy's fall we would be in very dire straights now.
Has Obama spent allot of money since he entered office. The simple answer is yes. But the fact that lies beneath that answer is that the money is going to help the American people, and to stabilize the economy. When the government invests money into the national economy people are put to work, They earn salaries, and they buy new things. The government makes the money back in taxes and many of the programs will generate income for the government directly as well as putting people to work.
I'm not really interested in what Bush's deficit would be if he had a republican senate and congress because that was a completely different situation. What's important now is to focus on where the country is headed, if the course is good for the country and it's people and above all else if the course is leading the country astray; how can we as American's help to put our country back on the right course. Government spending and regulation now is the safest way to stimulate the economy. Infrastructure improvements will benefit everyone, and create jobs, and generate revenue. Thats what the country needs now. That will put us back on the course to prosperity. Taxes today are nothing like the taxes of the 40's and 50s. Things could be worse and they have been much worse. Take the steps to solve the problem now before it becomes much more grievous.
12/20/2009
BILL L says....
Right, right, except that the democrats were chicken and could never find their guts. They were always afraid, like children, of being labeled as unpatriotic, soft on defense, or what ever else could be cooked up by Cheney, Rove, and the other excellent obfuscators that preach the gospel of innuendo and half truth.
Pres. Bush exercised his veto power minimally; 12 Times compared to his father's 44 times and Ronald Reagan's 78 times. Its self-evident that he was not to distraught by the crap the Democrats and the Republicans were sending to him. Bush and his party influenced the process in Congress and the Democratic majority far better than you and others now will admit.
12/20/2009
SB says....
Perhaps you should wake up out of your republican induced stupor Jimmy.
Bush had a Republican Congress for 6 years of his tenure. It was only during his last two years that there was a Democratic majority in Congress.
12/20/2009
Rob says....
The Republicans controlled the White House and Congress (House & Senate) during the first four years of W's presidency and demonstrated to their admitted shame that their supposed conservatism went out the windows once they got hold of the national checkbook.
12/20/2009
Norm S says....
To quote the biaed logic--
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way.
'
What a cop out defense! Of the 8 years B Boy was Pres 6 of were controled by the spend but don't tax Republicans.
And in fairness to your hero - those last two years he did a better job that the 1st 6
12/20/2009
Rich Belmont says....
"By the way, President Bush was trying to deal with a Democratic-controlled Congress that fought him every step of the way." Well, let's see what is wrong with this revisionist history: First of all, the Democrats didn't control Congress for the eight years that Bush was president. Second, more often then not the Democrats rolled over and played dead as Bush cut taxes and raised spending. (Voodoo economics anyone?)
12/20/2009
Ed T. says....
The only way to solve the runaway government is to require each congressman to represent their district by voting according to their constituents desires (bi-partisan) on any issue that increases the national debt. It seems that they only vote along party lines or what is in their self-interest.
12/20/2009
robmo35 says....
This is'nt debate it's just rank speculation. I mean the logic behind such an article is non existent. What would have happened if we didn't have an economic collapse? We will never know. What would have happened if 9/11 never happened. This is the childish silliness you get when an engineering tech with an agenda, stop criticizing Bush Obama is just as bad and its all the Democrats fault anyway, writes a letter.
12/20/2009
razum says....
You are correct. Democrats are adding to the national debt but you must ask 'why?'. George and friends added to our debt load for a war most of us didn't want and in a country which didn't even attack the US.
Obama is spending money on what? Bailing out 300 million people addicted to credit. Is it his fault our ours?
12/20/2009
Kristel F. says....
It only took Clinton 8 years to clean up 16 years of Republican crap. There's still time.
12/20/2009
Merry Christmas says....
Jesus was a Liberal. What ever happened to him? Oh yeah. He shouldn't have messed with the status quo. If he had only partnered with them money lenders, and war mongers everything would have been just fine.
12/20/2009
Sry bout ur luk says....
Bush spent his money on an unnecessary war. Obama is spending his trying to fix our nations health care. No comparison, none at all.
12/20/2009
Scott, Lawrence says....
Democrats & Republicans- Sick of all of them. They're all out for themselves. Not a one of them is a Patriot. We need someone to step up or the US is going over the edge with obama.
He is wrong. & he's inexperienced. Palin was right. Why didn't we listen?
12/20/2009
dbnunn says....
All the problems of mankind is caused by governments of men, just as God told Samuel when the Israelites decided they wanted men to rule them instead of God. Certainly, the liberals are driving America to its destruction, but only a little faster than the conservatives.
12/20/2009
Post a comment
Your best chance of getting your comment posted:
Read our full use policy.
Your best chance of getting your comment posted:
- No profanity
- Be civil
- Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
| SALINA.COM FEATURES | ||
NEWS |
ONLINE EXTRAS |
COMMUNITY |
| ADDITIONAL FEATURES | ||
CLASSIFIED
BUSINESS SERVICES |
READER SERVICES
|
SPECIAL SECTIONS |
| salina.com is an online
feature of the Salina Journal Copyright © 2010 Salina Journal and MediaSpan Contact Us | Terms of Service |
||